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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 6, 2013 5:47:34 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #4
ARMINIAN ETERNAL TORMENT BELIEF VERSUS CALVINIST ETERNAL TORMENT BELIEF
ARMINIAN ET BELIEF - It's as if God says “Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”
Christ's apparent mission: To save from eternal torment only those who are lucky enough to hear about Jesus before they die, and also are smart enough to properly cooperate with Him before they die.
CALVINIST ET BELIEF - It's as if God says "Since there is nothing you can do about it because you are totally depraved and you are not one of the elect, it is obvious that I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you to go to heaven where you will be happy forever."
Christ's apparent mission: To let everyone suffer eternal torment without any say in the matter, except the few He rescues by His irresistible grace.
Robert Southy (1774 -1843) wrote, “In the worst and bloodiest idolatry that ever defiled the earth, there is nothing so horrid, so monstrous, and so impious as Calvinism.”
UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION BELIEF (mine) – God says “Sooner or later, because of what Christ accomplished by His death and resurrection, I am going to save all of you from everything from which you need to be saved, including your stubborn will.”
Christ's scriptural mission: 'And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world' (1John 4:14).
I worship a Jesus Who will be completely successful in accomplishing the reason why His Father sent Him.
Christ was prophesied to take away the sin of the world (Jn. 1:29), so how then can a sinless world suffer everlasting punishment in the lake of fire?! How absurd! Christ is the Saviour of the world (Jn. 4:42; 1Jn. 4:14), and He will save it!"
My advice, don't put your faith in your faith. Your faith may, and probably will be misplaced from time to time, especially if you are having faith in your self. Put your faith in Jesus Christ instead, because even if He casts you into the lake of fire which is the second death it will include the age-during corrective chastisement that He has promised to everyone who needs it.
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 7, 2013 7:05:23 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #5
A.E. KNOCH
One of the great Christian Biblical Universalist of the last century was A.E. Knoch.
My attitude towards the frequent threats of believers in eternal torment is summed up beautifully by his response.
An eternal torment critic said "Mr. Knoch and his colleagues will yet have to answer to God for so defiantly opposing the plain teachings of God's holy word."
In reply A.E. Knoch wrote:
"Let me assure our brother, beloved by the Lord, that we fully expect to answer to God for all our acts, and will rejoice to see all that is not of God destroyed by the fiery test of that day. But such threats do not alarm us in the least. We know a God of transcendent grace. It is only natural for one who thinks Him capable of tormenting His own creatures eternally, to seek to follow His example, and torture His servants here and now. Indeed, it would be strange if it were not so.
The character of the God you worship will determine your ways and your words. We trust it will be so with us also, for we would delight to be like Him. Hence, we do not threaten you with His wrath, but commend you to His grace.
Perhaps no sin can be so great as to distort His words and defame His character. But His grace is superbly sufficient, His love is lavish in its long-suffering. It never lapses, but looks longingly for the reconciliation which is the justification and crown of all His ways with His creatures.
So, as we close with the absolute certainty of a reconciliation between us, we anticipate it on our part and throw all enmity aside. We are conciliated no matter what you do. We recall with joy and satisfaction the great truth that, by God's grace, it is impossible for you to enter into condemnation, no matter how much you may offend Him (Rom.8:1) and the still greater truth that we are saved for grace (Eph.2:8). While your words and ways have seemed to us to be offensively unlike His, this only gives greater ground for grace. This of itself justifies them, for grace must have a foil.
We close, then, with a prayer for such an outpouring of His grace on your own head as will force you to feel the affection which is found in Him for all the creatures of His hand and heart." A.E. Knoch
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 8, 2013 4:34:23 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #6 AION -- AIONIOS In the first three chapters of Ephesians, (a key book regarding God’s plan for man relative to the fullness of the times) aion is used seven times. And out of those seven, the KJV has chosen five different English words (“ages,” “course,” “end,” “eternal,” and “world” to translate this one word. And to add to this confusion, it translates the Greek word genea (generation), a totally different word, twice as “ages.” Talk about confusion compounded! Is it any wonder the church has been blinded from God’s truth about the purpose of His judgments and His eonian plan to save all fallen creatures?! Simply put, the Scriptures do not take up the philosophical concept of eternity, but rather speak of eons and that which pertains to them. Of course God’s glory exceeds the eons, but His glory is reflected by His Son during the eons as they are presented in Scripture. No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world. Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest. CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html Also see AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html(especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve) AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html The etymology of the Greek word aionios does not contain the meaning of everlasting.
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 9, 2013 4:44:39 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #7 ALL IN ALL – A.E. Knoch A.E. Knoch’s book ALL IN ALL Richard Condon’s detailed rebuttal of Don Hewey’s criticisms of A.E Knoch’s ALL IN ALL can be read at www.tentmaker.org/contending.htmThey are the very same arguments he used against A. C. Thomas and E. H. Lake. Regarding the book ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch. In spite of the claim that there are contradictions in it, and in spite of “cult-buster” Don Hewey’s other attempts to discredit it, (arguments to which Richard Condon has responded), ALL IN ALL remains, in my opinion, one of the best of all the many books that I have read in support of the Bible teaching universal transformation. Don Hewey is a believer in the inspiration of the King James Version. When he accuses A.E. Knoch of "contradicting the Bible," in many cases what he really means is that A.E. Knoch contradicts the KJV, because the Concordant Translation does not rely on the Received Text from which the KJV was translated. Don Hewey therefore also attacks the RSV, the NIV, and other modern translations. For this reason much of what Don writes just doesn't make any sense. As far as Knoch calling the life that Lazarus will be raised to as it being eonian and unending, it is both. Lazarus will have unending life and that life will allow him to live through the oncoming eons which is called '"eonian life." But even if Don Hewey’s criticisms had any merit, (and Richard Condon proves they don’t), they would still not detract from the fact that this book proves that the Bible teaches universal salvation, not eternal torment, or even annihilation. Richard Condon’s detailed rebuttal of Don Hewey’s criticisms of ALL IN ALL can be read at www.tentmaker.org/contending.htmThey are the very same arguments he used against A. C. Thomas and E. H. Lake. ALL IN ALL by A.E. Knoch (222 pages) Concordant Publishing Concern www.concordant.org/ Introduction: “The blood of Christ is the basis of all blessing. The purpose of God determines human destiny. It does not depend on our deserts. The plan or process of God during the eons or ages must be distinguished from His purpose which will not be fully accomplished until the eons are past. Herein lies the difference between the teaching of the Scriptures and the accepted creeds of Christendom. The believer suffers in the current era because of sin, but will be released in the resurrection at the presence of Christ. The unbeliever will have affliction and anguish for his sins in the judgment, but he also becomes reconciled to God at the consummation, through the blood of Christ’s cross. (Col.1-20). Universal reconciliation is the glorious goal toward which all leads. All of God’s purpose is achieved through Him Who is the Alpha and the Omega (Rev.1:8). “In Him the entire complement delights to dwell, and through Him [God delights] to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens” (Col.1:19,20) The terms translated “forever” and “everlasting” and “never” are human perversions which could never have deceived us if they had been consistently rendered. They denote definite divisions of time called ages or eons. All together they form a distinct portion of time called eonian times. Much in our common creeds is true if confined within the eons, but it is most malignant error when forced beyond the eons. Since judgment is not eternal, but eonian, we may accept all the solemn threats of death and condemnation without reservation, while happily exulting in God’s grand goal to which all His labors lead: that God may be All in All (1Cor.15:28).” ALL IN ALL can be read on the internet here Copy and paste the following url into the server address bar or click on www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 10, 2013 5:47:33 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 11, 2013 6:03:35 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #9 If you cannot love an eternal torment god For the first 500 years after Christ, universalism was the prevailing doctrine believed and taught by the Christian church. Universalism The Prevailing Doctrine Of The Christian Church During Its First Five Hundred Years hellbusters.8m.com/updcontents.htmlThe author, J.W. Hanson wrote “The purpose of this book is to present the evidence of the prevalence in the early centuries of the Christian church, of the doctrine of the final holiness of all mankind. The author believes that the following pages show that Universal Restitution was the faith of the early Christians for at least the First Five Hundred Years of the Christian era. He has aimed to present irrefragable proofs that the doctrine of Universal Salvation was the prevalent sentiment of the primitive Christian church. The salient statements and facts in all which will be found in these pages show that the most and ablest of the early fathers found the deliverance of all mankind from sin and sorrow specifically revealed in the Christian Scriptures.” And they were reading the Bible in its original language! TRACING UNIVERSALIST THOUGHT THROUGH CHURCH HISTORY Well known Christian church leaders who believed and taught Biblical universalism. Including a link to a separate list of famous people embracing Christian universalism. www.tentmaker.org/tracts/Universalists.html THE WRITINGS OF DOZENS OF TEACHERS OF CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM THE MAIN LIBRARY AND IN THE GARDEN web.archive.org/web/20110713224225/http://gtft.org/TWO TREASURE HOUSES OF CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALIST ARTICLES www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/articles2.html tgulcm.tripod.com/cu/univart.html
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 12, 2013 5:39:00 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #10 CONSEQUENCES OF THE ETERNAL TORMENT DOCTRINE I’m 74 years old. The idea that God lets anyone suffer forever has caused me more suffering, including a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78, than all the other sufferings of my life combined. This suffering was caused by the fear produced by not being able to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever and wondering what this god would do to me for not being able to love him. Even though I was and am trusting for my salvation in what Jesus accomplished by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I was, and still am unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever. Here are testimonies similar to mine. www.tentmaker.org/articles/hells_fruit.html greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/consequences.html If you are like me and cannot love a god who would let anyone suffer forever, you can copy and paste (if necessary) the following urls into the address bar and find out that a literally (not interpretively) translated Bible actually teaches universal salvation, not even annihilation. Copy and paste into Google THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD SERIES – J. Preston Eby If necessary, copy and paste the following urls into the address bar. www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm At the top and bottom of that same THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD page, there is the following link to fourteen other writings in the same series that deal with the many aspects of this same subject. www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 13, 2013 6:05:11 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 14, 2013 7:49:57 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #11
The meaning of words that have been translated as “eternal”, “forever”, “incurable” in the scriptures
Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7)--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" 16:53-55).
Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12)-until--the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17).
The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9)-until-- Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53).
An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever"-until--the tenth generation (Deut. 23:3):
Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting", that is -until-- they "were shattered" Hab. 3 3:6).
The Aaronic Priesthood was to be an "everlasting" priesthood (Ex. 40:15), that is-until-it was superseded by the Melchizedek Priesthood (Hebrews 7:14-18).
Many translations of the Bible inform us that God would dwell in Solomon's Temple "forever" (1 Kings 8:13), that is,--until the Temple was destroyed.
The Law of Moses was to be an "everlasting covenant" (Leviticus 24:8) yet we read in the New Covenant the first was "done away" and "abolished" (2 Corinthians 3:11,13), and God "made the first old" (Hebrews 8:13).
God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever"-until--the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);
Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer. 25:27)-until--the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer. 49:39).
"Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)-until--the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47).
Israel's judgment lasts "forever"-until--the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13-15).
So, narrow is the way to life and few find it-until-- His church confiscates the "strong man's" booty, setting the captives free so God becomes all in all (Isa. 61, Luke 11:21-22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor. 15:24-28).
The King James Bible, as well as many others, tells us that a bondslave was to serve his master "forever" (Exodus 21:6), that is,--until--his death.
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 15, 2013 3:33:37 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #12
Authors from the hard copy UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION library of Rodger Tutt
BOOKS WITH SPINES (NO STAPLES)
1. REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL – RAY PRINZING 2. ALL IN ALL - A.E. KNOCH 3. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL AND THE JUDGMENTS OF GOD – A.E. KNOCH 4. THE INESCAPABLE LOVE OF GOD – THOMAS TALBOTT 5. A TREATISE ON ATONEMENT – HOSEA BALLOU 6. SALVATOR MUNDI: OR, IS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN? – SAMUEL COX 7. GOD’S RULES FOR SCRIPTURAL INTERPRETATION AND MAN’S PLACE IN GOD’S PURPOSE – CHARLES J. PEART 8. THE PURPOSE OF GOD’S WILL – GUY MARKS 9. A CLOUD OF WITNESSES – J.W. HANSON 10. TRUTH AS I SEE IT – W.F. SALTER 11. A SHORT HELP AND INCENTIVE TO AN UNBIASED INQUIRY INTO THE SCRIPTURE TRUTH OF UNIVERSALISM OR THE FINAL RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS – R. ROE 12. THE FIVE SMOOTH STONES OF THE KINGDOM – IRENE LINDSAY 13. TIME AND ETERNITY- G.T. STEVENSON 14. THE DIVINE DESTINY – K. ROSS MCKAY 15. IS HELL ETERNAL? – MIKKEL DAHL AND JON R. WELKER 16. THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL TORMENTS OVERTHROWN – THOMAS WHITTEMORE 17. THE GREEK WORD AION – AIONIOS TRANSLATED EVERLASTING – ETERNAL IN THE HOLY BIBLE SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION – JOHN WESLEY HANSON 18. A LETTER OF THE CELEBRATED JOHN FOSTER TO A YOUNG MINISTER ON THE DURATION OF FUTURE PUNISHMENT AND AN EARNEST APPEAL TO THE AMERICAN TRACT SOCIETY IN REGARDS TO THE CHARACTER OF ITS PUBLICATIONS – JOHN FOSTER 19. IS HELL ETERNAL OR WILL GOD’S PLAN FAIL - CHARLES H. PRIDGEON 20. THE GOSPEL FROM OUTER SPACE – ROBERT SHORT 21. THE GREAT REVELATION OR GOD’S LOVE, PURPOSE AND PLAN – JOHN H. PATON 22. AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS – LOUIS ABBOTT 23. DARE WE HOPE THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED – HANS URS VON BALTHASAR 24. GOD’S ULTIMATE – A.E. SAXBY 25. A SPIRITUAL AUTOBIOGRAPHY – WILLIAM BARCLAY 26. THE GOSPEL OF OUR SALVATION – ADLAI LOUDY 27. CHRIST TRIUMPHANT – THOMAS ALLIN 28. THE ANCIENT HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – HOSEA BALLOU 29. THE MODERN HISTORY OF UNIVERSALISM – THOMAS WHITTEMORE 30. RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – ANDREW JUKES 31. YOU SAID IT LORD – ALINE TALSMA 32. THOUGHTS ON THE DIVINE GOODNESS RELATIVE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF MORAL AGENTS PARTICULARLY DISPLAYED IN FUTURE REWARDS AND PUNISHMENTS – FERDINAND OLIVER PETITPIERRE 33. HOPE BEYOND HELL – GERRY BEAUCHEMIN 34. AT THE END OF THE AGES THE ABOLITION OF HELL – BOB EVELY 35. THE RESTORATION OF ALL THINGS OR A VINDICATION OF THE GRACE OF GOD TO BE MANIFESTED AT LAST IN THE RECOVERY OF HIS WHOLE CREATION OUT OF THEIR FALL – JEREMIAH WHITE 36. THE GREAT DELVERANCE – GUY MARKS 37. UNION – JAMES RELLY 38. THE UNIVERSAL RESTORATION – ELHANAN WINCHESTER 39. THE JUST JUDGMENT OF GOD – JAMES CORAM 40. GRACIOUS GOSPEL BOOK FOUR – SHERWOOD MICHAEL 41. HOW TO KEEP 0N LIVING – DUSEAN BERKICH 42. THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK
BOOKS WITH STAPLES
1. TIME, ETERNITY AND GOD – REDEMPTION’S GLORY – RAY PRINZING 2. THE MAGNITUDE OF REDEMPTION – RAY PRINZING 3. THE INTERPLAY OF GOOD AND EVIL – RAY PRINZING 4. DIVINE INWORKINGS – ALL IN ALL – RAY PRINZING 5. THE UNENDING TRIUMPH OF JESUS CHRIST – ED GREGORY 6. THE TRUE BASIS OF REDEMPTION – A.P. ADAMS 7. THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MANKIND - JOSEPH KIRK, WILLIAM C. REBMANN, DEAN HOUGH, AND JAMES CORAM 8. ETERNAL TORMENT OR UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – A.E. KNOCH 9. CREATION, REDMPTION AND THE RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS – GEORGE R. HAWTIN 10. EONIAN - EVERLASTING OR AGE-LASTING – GRACE H. TODD 11. THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – JOHN H. ESSEX 12. THE PURPOSE OF GOD – JOHN H. ESSEX 13. THE GREATNESS OF SALVATION – WILLIAM MEALAND 14. GOD JUSTIFIES, VIVIFIES, SAVES AND RECONCILES ALL – E.G. JONES 15. TWO STUDIES ON HEAVEN AND HELL – A.E. KNOCH 16. A RANSOM FOR ALL – E.T. SPRINGETT MOXHAM 17. THE AGES IN THE SCRIPTURES – VLADIMIR GELESNOFF 18. “HELL” – VLADIMIR GELESNOFF 19. “ONE” AND “ALL” – JOHN ESSEX 20. ON THESE THINGS MEDITATE – WILLIAM MEALAND 21. “ETERNAL LIFE” – LOYAL F. HURLEY 22. TORTURING DOUBTS AND EXULTANT FAITH – JAMES CORAM 23. THE GLORY OF THE HAPPY GOD – ARTHUR CHARLES LAMB 24. THE CONCEPT OF CIRCULARITY – JACK E. JACOBSEN 25. GOD’S PERFECT PLAN – AUTHOR UNKNOWN 26. THE CROSS AND THE AGES TO COME – G. CAMPBELL MORGAN 27. NOTES FROM ROMANS 5 – W.H. GRIFFITH THOMAS 28. DEFINITION OF BIBLE TERMS – GEORGE R. HAWTIN 29. HE LIGHTETH EVERY MAN – VIRGENE ANDREWS 30. AGES OR ETERNITY AND THE KING JAMES VERSION – JOHN DOKAS 31. THE PLAN OF REDEMPTION SEEN FROM GOD’S VIEWPOINT – DORA VAN ASSEN 32. DIVINE JUDGMENT - DORA VAN ASSEN 33. GOD’S UNFAILING PLAN REVEALED IN THE EONS – DORA VAN ASSEN 34. THE SPIRIT AND POWER OF ELIJAH – PAUL MUELLER 35. “ASK OF ME OF THINGS TO COME” – K. ROSS MCKAY 36. “ MY COUNSEL SHALL STAND” – K. ROSS MCKAY 37. “ FOR WHO HATH RESISTED HIS WILL – K. ROSS MCKAY 38. THE GREAT WHITE THRONE – AUTHOR UNKNOWN 39. PROGRESSIVE REVELATION WITHIN THE BIBLE – EARNEST L. MARTIN 40. THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – GUY MARKS 41. THE PLACE OF HUMANITY IN GOD’S PURPOSE – JOHN H. ESSEX 42. A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE SCRIPTURES – G.J. SALTER 43. RESTORATION: THROUGH THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES – CHARLES WELLER 44. THE EONS OF THE BIBLE – JOSEPH E. KIRK 45. OUR CHURCH FATHERS TESTIFY – JACK JACOBSON 46. WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED – KENNETH BRIX 47. BE YE RECONCILED – VIRGENE ANDREWS 48. MY UNEXPECTED DISCOVERY – HANNAH WHITALL SMITH 49. WHENCE ETERNITY? – ALEXANDER THOMSON 50. MUST AION MEAN ETERNAL? – PHILIP SCRANTON 51. TARDY OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL – F. NEIL POHORLAK 52. MARTIN ZENDER GOES TO HELL – MARTIN ZENDER 53. THE DEPTHS OF GOD WILL RETRIEVE ALL - ANTHONY J. BORRELLO 54. NONE LOST, NONE DESTROYED – ANTHONY J. BORRELLO 55. SOONER OR LATER GOD ALL IN ALL - ANTHONY J. BORRELLO 56. 100 SCRIPTURAL PROOFS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MANKIND – THOMAS WHITTEMORE 57. A TRUE REVELATION AND A SECOND WITNESS – TRAVIS OGLETREE 58. THE CHRIST OF GLORY – MARVIN W. RICE 59. JUSTIFICATION – DONALD G. HAYTER 60. THE “EVIL” FROM THE LORD – MICHAEL KILLIAN 61. THE FEET MINISTRY – DON BRUCE 62. HELL – J.W. WILLIAMS 63. LIFE FOR ALL - CHARLES W. COTTON 64. UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON 65. 125 NUTS FOR CALVINISTS TO CRACK – C.R. BIERBOWER 66. ALL AND ALL IN ALL – VINCE HOLLANDER AND HENRY BULLER 67. THE WAY TO SALVATION IN THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL – ERNEST L. MARTIN 68. THE EARLY VIEW OF THE SAVIOR – GARY AMIRAULT 69. ETERNAL DEATH – ONE STEP OUT OF HELL, ONE STEP SHORT OF GLORY - GARY AMIRAULT 70. THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL – TONY HINKLE 71. THE SECOND DEATH – A.E. SAXBY 72. OVERWHELMING GRACE – JOHN H. ESSEX 73. THE GOSPEL OF GRACE – CHARLES W. WELLER 74. JUSTIFICATION – DONALD G. HAYTER 75. THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY 76. THE GOSPEL – BERT BAUMAN 77. WHAT GOD SAYS CONCERNING HELL – J.F. RODGERS 78. MAN’S FAILURE OR GOD’S SUCCESS – WHICH WILL STAND? – LEE SALISBURY 79. ETERNITY EXPLAINED – LEE SALISBURY 80. JUST WHAT DO YOU MEAN? (SERIES OF13 VOLUMES) J. PRESTON EBY
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 17, 2013 5:54:58 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #13 Fear by Walter Lanyon Fear can manifest only because of a belief in separation. As long as you are something apart from God you will experience, in one form or another, fear. It is subtle and hidden like a poisonous serpent coiled in the grass, liable to strike at any time--at the most unguarded moment, when least expected. Its only power is given to it by thought, and it can be swollen by thought from a serpent into a dragon. All thoughts of evil are like toy balloons in that they are enlarged until finally the capacity is overtaxed and they burst. Sooner or later a fear will explode itself, however much or little damage it has done. The panacea for all fear is your union with God. The moment you are separated from ME and wander into the thought world (the vacuum of separation), you are subject to the laws of fear. The one who is filled with fear sees the ''ten thousand fall at your right hand,'' and is so convinced of the reality and power of evil that he fails to notice the one who passes through unscathed. ''Stand and see the salvation of the Lord'' has a definite, positive value to you NOW. For you are beginning to sense-see the power of being one instead of two. You are beginning to appropriate the instantaneous relief felt from this ONENESS. This sudden appropriation of ONENESS is accompanied by the consciousness of how to eliminate the object of, or the belief in, fear. There are different ''cities'' of refuge into which you may run for every differing degree of fear; yet all are the same God. This ''running'' into God is not as symbolical as it appears. It is an actual fusing of you with the Father within you, and from that moment you are a majority, and you will know the NOTHINGNESS of the fear belief. We arrive finally at the point, which is so full of the acceptance of God that it can and does say, ''Even if You slay me, yet I will say You are God''---and the last stand is taken. Even if You slay me---yet will I acknowledge this One and Only Power. www.interiorcoveringsministry.org/pages.asp?pageid=37154
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 18, 2013 5:49:29 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #14 GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME While the elect are enjoying life eonian, the non-elect will experience kolasis eonian which means age-during corrective chastisement. When the corrective chastisement has been achieved in everyone who needs it, then both life eonian and chastisement eonian will come to an end and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will. A snippet from GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME "During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)." GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html Many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html SEE THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.htmlTHE EONS martinzender.com/Zenderature/the_eons.htmTHE EONS www.hbci.com/~billstei/hae/aionverses.pdf
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 19, 2013 7:39:53 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 20, 2013 6:14:49 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #15
GRACE, PLUS NOTHING – James Coram
This is not to say that our efforts are not essential or that there will be nothing for us to do since it is God Who saves us from our failings. To the contrary, God graciously saves us by causing us to work, “training us that, disowning irreverence and worldly desires, we should be living sanely and justly and devoutly in the current eon” Titus 2:11,12. But our efforts are merely a product; they are the means through which God saves us. We contribute nothing.
It is not a question of our discipline and volition, but of pride and self-reliance concerning our discipline and volition, of boasting in the flesh instead of glorying in the transforming power of God. As long as we continue to see ourselves, in the final sense, as the key to anything, we will remain proud, antagonistic to “the grace of God in truth” Col. 1:6.
It is one thing to conceive of ourselves, in a dutiful sense and relatively speaking, as “cooperating” with the Lord Jesus, as He leads us into paths of better service. It is quite another, however, proudly to fancy ourselves to be so utterly independent of the Supreme Deity Himself, the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, that even He is at a loss to change our will or walk without our help.
Luke 6:32-35 shows us what God's grace (thanks) is; He is gracious to the wicked, which means sinners like we all were when He was gracious to us. It's not that we have to preach so they can be saved, otherwise we're responsible for their "eternal d**nation", and they have to receive the message (if we happen to present it to them), or else they will be eternally d**ned. Salvation is not based on human actions, but on divine actions. He chooses who to save and when, and at that moment, that soul is saved. And He will save all, as He has clearly said He will do.
We believe the message we heard, and we preach because we are so commanded, but God doesn't depend upon us to save ourselves, nor does He depend upon our conveying the message, to save others. He is the only Sovereign, and He so arranges EVERYTHING that each will be saved. Free will and chance are myths which have completely twisted the mindset of many Christians.
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 21, 2013 6:20:57 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 22, 2013 5:35:38 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #17
SOME PERSONAL THOUGHTS ON “I NEVER KNEW YOU”
"There is no better place than being in the hands of God." For a UR that is definitely true! But for an ETer, probably not, because they might turn out to be one of these guys.
"Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy Name? and in Thy Name have cast out devils, and in Thy Name have done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them I never knew you. Depart from Me ye who work iniquity' (Matt. 7:22,23).
We could possibly add to those declarations that some, in astonishment, will also say, -- "but my name should be right there in the book of life because I got myself saved in Your Name!"
They fully expect to go right into heaven based on what they had done in the Name of Jesus. Instead, Jesus will cast them into the lake of fire which is the second death which will include kolasis aionion, which means age-during corrective chastisement.
It is God, not us, who decides who will or will not be cast into the lake of fire which is the second death.
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 23, 2013 5:57:54 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 24, 2013 6:33:34 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #19 JUDAS Here is why the case of Judas does not disprove UR. "Let us look carefully at the Greek text: kalon ên auto eiouk egennêthê ho anthropos ekeinos, "Ideal were it for Him if that man were not born" or "It were ideal for Him if that man was not born." The question is asked, Who is the Him? The answer is in the preceding clause. There we have the pronoun autou, "Him," and anthropo ekeino, "that man," both referred to in such a way that we cannot mistake them. "The Son of Man indeed goeth as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed!" "Him" is the Son of Man, "that man" is Judas. The Him cannot refer to Judas, therefore the text can be paraphrased as, "Ideal were it for Him (the Son of Man) if that man (Judas) were not born." That is the understanding that the syntax requires. Therefore, Mark 14:21 does not contradict Col. 1:15-20; 1 Tim. 4:9-11; Rom. 5:18, 19; etc., all teaching the ultimate salvation of Judas." Regarding the confusion of the different versions, Louis Abbott adds the following note: "Notice how the following versions translates this clause: The ASV, 1901 margin, "Good were it for him if that man had not been born;" Rotherham's version, "Well for him if that man had not been born;" Murphy's edition of the Douay Version and the New Testament translated from the Latin Vulgate, 1898, "It were better for him, if that man had not been born;" (the following three versions are quoted in the original spelling) Wiclif, 1380, "It were good to hym if thilke man hadde not been borun;" Tyndale, 1534, "Good were it for him if that man had never bene borne;" Rheims, 1582, "it vvere good for him, if that man had not been borne." and repeating the conclusion The Him cannot refer to Judas, therefore the text can be paraphrased as, "Ideal were it for Him (the Son of Man) if that man (Judas) were not born." IMO that is the understanding that the syntax requires. Therefore, Mark 14:21 does not contradict Col. 1:15-20; 1 Tim. 4:9-11; Rom. 5:18, 19; etc., all teaching the ultimate salvation of Judas." But even if it did refer to Judas, consider this. A snippet from BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html Scroll down and click on BETTER NEVER BEEN BORN "This was a proverbial expression among the Jews, and was not employed literally." It was the same meaning as we have today when we say "I wish I had never been born", or "You will wish you had never been born." “But what about Judas Iscariot? Doesn’t it say it would have been better if he’d never been born? Matthew 26:24 “The Son of Mankind is indeed going away, according as it is written concerning Him, yet woe to that man through whom the Son of Mankind is being given up! Ideal were it for Him if that man were not born!” It would have been ideal (pleasing and peaceful) for Jesus (the Son of Mankind/Him) if Judas (that man) had not been born. It was nevertheless necessary for him to be born and commit his sin of betrayal in order for scripture to be fulfilled. See Genesis 6:6; John 18:11; Matt. 26:39. (While many Bible versions mistranslate Matt.26:24, some do put the correct rendering in the margin.) Concerning Judas’ title, “son of destruction”, John 17:12, the Greek word is apollumi, often translated, perish or lose. This word is used in the New Testament about 90 times. Many people, animals, and even things are described as being “lost”, “destroyed” or “perished”. It is unwise to assume the word describes “eternal d**nation”. “For the Son of Mankind came to seek and to save the lost (apollumi).” Luke 19:10. The book All in All, by A. E. Knoch, is very informative on this and some other important topics, such as the eons, the 3 classes of vivification, “hell”, and “annihilation”. www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 25, 2013 5:53:08 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #20 INTERPRETED VERSIONS ARE WRONG God says what the Greek says, not what the interpreted versions say. God says what the literal translations say. There are several dozen Greek scholars who agree with John Wesley Hanson that interpreted versions are wrong. AIÓN – AIÓNIOS www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.shtmlTHE SCHOLARS CORNER THE CENTER FOR BIBLE STUDIES IN CHRISTIAN UNIVERSALISM www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.html Dean Hough, director of THE SAVIOUR OF ALL FELLOWSHIP wrote “The definition given in THE VOCABULARY OF THE GREEK TESTAMENT (edited by James Hope Moulton and George Milligan) is helpful. Concerning aionios we read, “In general, the word depicts that of which the horizon is not in view . . .” (p.16). If the horizon of the extermination spoken of by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is simply not in view, then we can see that what Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:22 can truly occur. The same all who are dying in Adam, which includes some who incur eonian extermination, can indeed eventually be vivified in Christ. The Bible, in fact, does not speak of judgment and condemnation, death and destruction, hades and Gehenna, or any of these serious consequences of sin, as unending. It may refer to them as not having the end in view, but none of these fearful works of God can keep Him from achieving His will (1Tim.2:4); reconciling all through the blood of Christ’s cross (Col.1:20, and becoming All in all (1 Cor.15:28).” Dean Hough
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 26, 2013 6:09:15 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #21 LOVE WINS Here is an analogy that I got from Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor) A man courts a lady by continually expressing his love for her week after week, both verbally, and by bringing her gifts. If he stops trying to persuade her to marry him, he loses everything. But if he never stops trying to convince her until she says yes, then he goes to her place, gathers up all the gifts he gave her AND HER, and takes them back to his place for the rest of their lives. Human love sometimes fails to elicit a loving response, but God’s divine love is not hampered by the limitations of human love. Even if takes kolasis aionios (age-during corrective chastisement) which is a negative expression of His love, God will sooner or later elicit a loving response from everyone. That is what I believe. LOVE WINS lovewins.us/388/an-analytical-study-of-words/
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 27, 2013 5:23:39 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #22 MUSLIMS As most Christians already know, millions of Christians believe that millions of Muslims (and all other non-Christians too) are going to suffer forever in hell. They believe it because that's the way they were taught by their parents and by other people on whom they relied to tell them the truth. What many Christians do not know is that millions of Muslims believe that millions of Christians (and all non-Muslims) are going to suffer forever in hell too. And they also believe it because that's the way they were taught by their parents and by other people on whom they relied to tell them the truth Quote from THE AFTER LIFE IN ISLAM "Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell, but non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally." www.religionfacts.com/islam/beliefs/afterlife.htm I think the entire dichotomy is ridiculous! I think that the idea of "eternal hell" may be the cause of more suffering on this earth than any other idea that exists. For anyone who is interested, the following is a very informative link containing many reasons why I agree with Chad Holtz and why I understand completely why he could no longer go on pretending to his congregation that he believes in such a horrific concept of God as taught by his denomination's interpretation of the Bible, even though it cost him his job. what-the-hell-is-hell.com/topics/hell-scholars-corner/ In my opinion the greatest of all manifestations of God's grace in action on this earth is that anyone can believe that God will let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of everlasting suffering and not go insane thinking about it. From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 28, 2013 5:50:29 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #23 The age following The Great White Throne Judgment is sometimes called by theologians 'the age of consummation,' or 'the age of Jubilee,' or 'the age of the New Heaven and New Earth.' By the time that age has ended, all fallen creatures will have been saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will. A snippet from THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – LOYAL F. HURLEY “Only as one sees God’s Plan of the Ages do they see the beauty of God’s Program for the redemption of the race. Heb. 11:3 should read, “Through faith we understand that the ages were planned by the Word of God.” The ages will collectively end. A literal translation of Heb. 9:26 is, ‘But now, once for all, with a view to the end of the ages, has He been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.’ Throughout the eons there is sin and evil, condemnation and death. At the end of the eons all will be justified (Rom. 5:18,19), and all will be reconciled through Christ’s blood (Col. 1:20).” GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 29, 2013 1:02:14 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #24
MUST AION MEAN ETERNAL? – PHILIP SCRANTON
"There are many texts in which aion and aionios cannot bear the meaning of eternity. And there are no texts in which the meaning of a limited period of time does not make reasonable sense. Our great loss is that when we ascribe the meaning of eternity to these words, we obliterate from view God's purpose of the eons. Further, the character of God is slandered, making Him the inflictor of incomprehensible woe.
It does not say that "all in Christ shall be made alive." It says, "in Christ shall all be made alive." The word for made alive means to be made immortal. After the great white throne, the unbelieving will participate in the second death – the lake of fire. Finally, at the consummation, when death is abolished, all will be made alive in Christ."
God is working all things after the counsel of His will and according to His perfect schedule. But the improper translation of "for the ages of the ages" ignores the purpose and climax of history. The holies of the holies (plural/plural) were the two inner confines of the tabernacle. (1Kings 8:6 literal translation instead of the most holy place.) They were more holy than the outer court and the camp and all the places outside the camp. In like manner, the ages of the ages are the two greatest ages of history because of what will transpire during their time. It does not cast the smallest shadow on the brilliance of God's glory to say that glory be attributed to Him during the climatic eons when His purpose will be realized by all and His glory seen more clearly than ever before."
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 30, 2013 6:13:21 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #25 "Forever and Ever"--A Poor Translation www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter5.html THE UNIVERSAL RESTORATION – ELHANAN WINCHESTER In the memoir of the author it is written, “He found no quietude, until, by a candid and prayerful examination of the Bible, he became fully satisfied that ‘God will have all men to be saved,’ and that ‘He doeth according to His will.’ His change of opinion was soon noised abroad, and produced a great disaffection in many of his former friends. Here is a snippet from the book. “The reason why I do not conceive that “forever and ever” doth intend endless duration is because I find the words as often used for times and periods that must have an end, as you find them used for the misery of the wicked. You bring three passages which are all that are to be found in the whole Bible where they are used in that sense; I shall now invalidate those evidences for endless d**nation by bringing an equal number of texts where you will allow the words are used in a limited sense. Is. 30:8; Jer. 7:7; Jer. 25:5. These passages are as many and as strongly expressed as those which you brought to prove endless misery; and yet nothing can be more evident than that they cannot intend endless duration. The words do not necessarily imply that the wicked shall never be delivered from their sins and consequent suffering. Now if the words “forever and ever” signify without end, then there is a contradiction that cannot be reconciled, but only understand them as the ages of the ages, (as indeed they ought to be rendered), and the whole difficulty vanishes at once.” GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME While the righteous are enjoying life eonian, the unrighteous will experience kolasis eonian which means age-during corrective chastisement. When the corrective chastisement has been achieved in everyone who needs it, then both life eonian and chastisement eonian will come to an end and eternity will continue with everyone saved from everything from which they need to be saved, including their stubborn will. A snippet from GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME "During the present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), Sin reigns, Satan who is said to be “the god of this eon” (2 Cor.4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1 Cor.15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and is in supreme control. He is the eonian God. In due time He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom.8;18-23)." GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html Many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html SEE THE SCHOLAR’S CORNER FOR THE STUDY OF BIBLICAL UNIVERSALISM www.tentmaker.org/ScholarsCorner.htmlBIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html
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Post by rodgertutt on Jan 31, 2013 4:33:32 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #26
THE NARROW DOOR
The language is entirely confined to the present. "Lord, are there few that be 'saved'?" The literal rendering is: "Are those being saved few?" The question relates entirely to the number then, at that time, that were entering the narrow door and accepting Christ.
But we know that sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4) It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved. And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like. Because God says "My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure (the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants) Yea I have spoken it. I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it. I will also do it." Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him? He does whatever he pleases. (the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it. (the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires. His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants What does He want? THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.
The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.
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Post by rodgertutt on Feb 1, 2013 6:06:20 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Feb 2, 2013 6:28:12 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Feb 3, 2013 5:38:56 GMT -8
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Post by rodgertutt on Feb 4, 2013 6:23:59 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #30 QUESTIONS WITHOUT ANSWERS www.tentmaker.org/books/QuestionsWithoutAnswers.htmlFrom the introduction "To those holding a limited view of God's plan of salvation, they are truly Questions Without Answers, but, to those who rely on God's Word, the answers become apparent as His truth is revealed to them." An important follow-up! - by Richard Condon A REFUTATION AND A RESPONSE www.tentmaker.org/contending.htm
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Post by rodgertutt on Feb 5, 2013 4:39:28 GMT -8
FROM THE DOCUMENTS OF RODGER TUTT #31 RAY PRINZING Everyone has an "opinion," including Ray Prinzing (my earthly hero and mentor). I'm just so glad that I discovered his "opinion" that enabled me to recover from a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 74 now) caused by my inability to trust a god who would let anyone suffer forever. During my breakdown, every morning, as I washed my family’s dishes, and before going to sleep at night, I would listen to one of Ray Prinzing’s many tapes. I have listened to 178 of them once, and 23 of them several times. In addition to these tapes, I always read every issue of his periodical GOSPEL ECHOES which he later renamed LETTERS OF TRUTH (because someone else had the copyright on GOSPEL ECHOES) and I gleaned many pages of his writings into my personal journal. Many people have a hero, someone in their life that made a contribution to their welfare so significant that it is far above the influence that anyone else has had. Ray Prinzing is that hero to me. For several years my 100 year old dad (who is still living) called me from his nursing home each evening. Each time he called I read a portion of my over four thousand page journal to him, and many of these readings are the gleanings that I wrote from Ray Prinzing’s writings and tapes. Many nights my dad fell asleep listening to one of Ray’s tapes. As I listened to Ray’s tapes I gradually became more and more sure that I was going to recover. The contents of his tapes gave me the courage, in 1978, to take a public stand that I believe that the Bible teaches universal transformation, not endless suffering in hell, or even annihilation. And now I spend most of my time offering people, in various ways, the information that helped me recover and helps me stayed recovered, and I am pleased to report that I have a lot of evidence that the info I post has helped, and is helping many other people in the same way that it helped me. All of Ray Prinzing's writings can be accessed by typing his name into Google. There are several pages of Google links about Ray Prinzing. ETers frequently like to say that Ray Prinzing was deceived by the devil. I encourage anyone who might be interested, to check out his writings and judge for yourself. I was especially helped by his book called REDEMPTION ALL IN ALL www.sigler.org/sirius8/rpredemption.htm hellbusters.8m.com/contall.htm Ray Prinzing has now passed on, but his influence is so wide spread that he will not be forgotten on this earth for many, many years, if ever. And that is a very good thing!
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